NO GLOCK FOR ME.

r4, 27July2014
There are several aftermarket safeties made for Glocks, and that's
because the three "safety" features are ALL just drop safeties.
A drop safety for impact from below is a shelf at the sear that requires aft
movement before the sear can slip downward off the striker hook.
A drop safety for impact from the aft direction is the "trigger safety" resisting the
inertia of the trigger linkage, preventing sear separation from the striker hook.

A report at "thehighroad" on 26mar2014 indicates that someone had a smith remove
the trigger safety on a competition gun, then the gun fell about 4ft and discharged.
Assuming this, the primary value of the trigger safety is drop protection,
not unlikely protection from a force against the side of the trigger.

There are NY-1 and NY-2 trigger mods sold to reduce unintended discharges. http://www.topglock.com/category/1654-Glock_Triggers.aspx

I decided not to get a Glock after finding too many reports of
unintended discharge by leo. .It has a light pre-loaded trigger,
and any time a round is in the chamber, the gun must be either in a
good holster, or properly drawn for firing.


Glocks require standard-pressure factory ammo. It's a military weapon,
with large chamber clearance and deep feed ramp that will allow a case
to burst at the primer end when other guns would not. And the polygon
rifling needs jacketed bullets to avoid fouling and overpressure.

Glocks are also unreliable due to cycle jams if not gripped firmly.
It has a low bore axis, but tests using a weak grip show that it might be
one of the worst common pistols for those firing with one hand or with
a weak grip.   Glocks jamming from weak hold

Updated Penetration Tests Into Poplar

To get an indication of bone/barrier penetration, the tests I found online
were not sufficient, so I built a rig out of sched 40 iron piping, with branches
terminated using lawn-mower mufflers, and the gun firing through a 1.75" port.

The test pieces are 2" dia poplar, 5" long, just 10" from the gun muzzles.
The test pieces are backed by a 1.25" pipe cap ground to fit reversed inside
the 2" pipe, then supported by a 1.25" plug, in turn supported by a 2" pipe cap.
(The rig weighs about 70lb. The 380 noise two feet to side is 104 dbc.)

For .32 acp full-jacket(S&B) fired from my Kel-Tec p32(2.68"barrel), typical
penetration was 2.7" with no yaw/keholing (no bulging or cracks in the wood
allowed). This seems adequate for me.

I did the same with .380 acp fmj(Fed Eagle) from my hated SW380 (3" barrel).
The typical .380 penetration was 3". Using my PK380(3.66" barrel),
penetration was 2.9" (Fed Eagle fmj).
It was a surprise that the PK was less than from the 3" blowback barrel.
But the PK only has 360 rounds fired, so the results might change with wear.
And it has twice the twist rate(9.5") than the Smith, with no yaw/keyholing
within 50ft. A point-first hit is very important for penetration.

The P-32 penetration was good, but energy is only 148 ft-lb(S&B ammo).
(Fiocchi fair; Geco not available; Buffalo too hot & only in lead.)
This confirms my conclusion that .32 acp fmj from the p-32 is adequate for
common carry, considering size/weight issues, using S&B fmj.
It's a hassle to carry more than a p-32 daily, unless I'm at some special risk.

I will only use fmj when firing 22mag, 32acp, and 380 for defensive use.
These are low energy loads, and the main job is to damage soft tissues after
passing through a heavy coat and a rib. Good penetration and good expansion
is not assured with low-energy expanding, or tumbling, bullets.
(I read that Seecamp has a problem with tumble, from its very short barrel.)
.

Martial Arts

Sometimes a victim can't use any weapon in defense.
For mental, physical, and social well being, martial arts
should be in every person's inventory, at any age.

Not only will you become physically and mentally better, your response to
perps will be quicker, even if just to give you time to make use of a weapon.

Don't start the training until you have become limber and reasonably strong,
and also know your physical limits. Whatever your size and condition, you
can interfere with a perp's plan, maybe enough to change the outcome,
with or without gunfire.

Even if you never need to make direct use of the training, it's helpful in life.
And you will have more chances to evade the full impact of any attack,
and take effective action.
.

SHILL

A "SHILL" benefits from helping to sell goods, services, or ideas,
without revealing a connection with the seller or group, and gives
a false impression of an approving customer, believer, or reviewer;
or sometimes a false impression on the negative side.

People buy guns sometimes with the complicity of a shill.
That might put your family in danger if a gun fails to fire.
.

Walther PK380

See .....http://pk380.blogspot.com/

Lead Poisoning.

California has gone to lead-free ammo for good reason,
and the military is starting to move away from it.
Lead and lead compounds are very toxic, and tests of indoor
range instructors reveal dangerous lead levels in their blood.

Try to use low/no-lead ammo; at least TMJ (total metal jacket) ammo,
where even the base of the bullet has a metal jacket, particularly
for indoor ranges.
If you look at a slo-mo film of a firearm discharge, part of the
cloud is lead vapor, from the primer and the exposed base of a bullet.

Link to:"Lead in Teen Pits County Against Family"

There are many extreme-volume outdoor ranges around the U.S., one
at Camp Perry, Ohio. There are no bullet stops there, and Lake Erie is
the impact zone for most of the rifle lead, and has been for many decades.
This is just a small fraction of the lead dumped into watersheds nationwide.
http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/may97range.html

Though pure lead might be relatively stable in fresh water with low oxygen
and carbonates, multiply a small lead reaction by billions over decades,
and the effects could be serious, particularly for microscopic organisms,
bottom-feeding fish, clams, and other animals in the food chain.
There is also a slight galvanic reaction in "fresh: water when lead
is in contact with copper jackets.

I keep my indoor handgun range time to a minimum, and try to go at slow times,
even though they are ventilated now. You can sense the effectiveness of a
ventilation system by watching the movement of smoke.
I have enough lead exposure from our ugly history of leaded paint
and gasoline.

The current biological index (limit) for lead-exposed workers in the U.S.
is 30 µg/dL in blood specimens. Blood lead concentrations for indoor
shooting range instructors has been found to be 109 to 139 µg/dL.
[Disposition of Toxic Drugs and Chemicals in Man, 8th Ed., Biomedical Publications,
Foster City, CA, 2008, pg 823-826]

http://www.precisioncartridge.com/lead.html
http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/epitox/fact_sheets/firingranges_emp.pdf
http://www.rangeinfo.org/resource_library/facility_mngmnt/environment/Lead-OSHA.pdf
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/ranges/

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/wp-solutions/2010-113/pdfs/2010-113.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead#Health_effects
.

Recommendations on Concealed Carry Guns.

What matters in concealed carry is reliability, easy use, size, and weight.
In 380, I can only suggest the Taurus 738, SIG 230, Bersa, and Rohrbaugh.
I would not choose 9x19 for common cc. It's much more power, with downsides.
For leo backup: 9x19 fmj (Rohrbaugh R9, Kahr PM9; not the unsafe Glocks.)

The Rohrbaugh R380 is $1200, but I might spend that, particularly if you don't want to correct problems or return a gun for service. It shoots; it's small; it's light.

The T738 is a good compromise. It shoots; it's small; it's light; for $400.
The Kahr PM9 if you can handle a 9x19 in a pocket gun (recoil; racking; noise).
The PK380 is for weaker hands, but it's still a work in progress.
It's bigger, but only 22oz loaded with 8 rounds. Anyone can rack it; under $400.
Since the 380 is not powerful, the PK380 longer barrel helps velocity/stability.

I use Federal 380 95gr fmj for more a bit more energy to penetrate coats, glass, bone, etc. Sig 230 is better than the Sig 232 for reliability.
A double/single action small revolver is the best for reliability, but they are wider and often heavier, and side blast can injure a finger if you hold it wrong.
The DA, or hammer in SA, can be tough for weaker hands.

A 38 special is a good choice for cc, but a Taurus 22mag 8-shot is both powerful
and small. 22wmr fmj weaker ammo is available to cut noise and side blast.

I have two Kel-Tec P-32's, which are effective compared to the P3AT for
various ballistic reasons, using S&B 32 fmj.
But it took so much grief, work, and time to make them reliable
that I cannot recommend either a Kel-Tec P-32, nor their P3AT.

Also, a laser is good; it might avoid the need to fire if a perp sees a beam.
.

"Trigger Creep" in Single Action Defense Guns

Main Point: If you partially pull a trigger against a sear, and release
the trigger, the sear might not return, and another pull
on the trigger could result in unsafe early detonation.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
I think trigger "creep" is a misuse of the word. Maybe it should
be defined as movement of the trigger during constant pressure
on the trigger. But I will use the common meaning here:
Movement of a trigger after the sear is engaged and to the
point where the sear releases the spring force into either the
hammer/firing-pin, or into a striker-type firing pin, causing detonation.

(A sear is a mechanical catch that holds spring pressure until
the sear slips free, whether the sear contact is metal-to-metal friction,
or some roller bearing crossing a cam high-point in a big gun.)

On a typical single-action trigger, there is "slack" movement of
the trigger until it "grabs"; which is when the sear is engaged.
(striker-fired guns have a "sear", but it engages the striker-pin)
Double-actions use a sear, but in that long trigger travel, the first job
after initial "grab" is cocking the hammer (or drawing the striker)
and pushing a link to engage the sear. The sear then slips free to fire
the gun, often with some element of surprise as to when it will fire.
Trying to guess (or stage) the firing point in a double action is risky.

Once an SA trigger starts sear engagement, you know that you
must be prepared for discharge at any time, since the firing pin,
or striker is almost ready to be launched into the primer.

Some say creep in the SA trigger is a bad feature, but I want creep.
My trigger finger deforms under load, so the direct feedback
is the feeling in my fingertip and in my finger structures.
After reaching the sear grab point, I then want some trigger
sensation as indication of actual sear movement.

When I shoot a rifle at 100 yards when standing ("off-hand"),
I time the sway of the front sight, and I jerk the trigger just before
the desired sight picture is reached. Trying to squeeze a
trigger in that situation means fewer hits on target.

But when using a two-hand grip while standing with a handgun,
I want to squeeze the trigger if I have time. If there is a sensation
of trigger/sear movement past the initial sear engagement, it
helps me to know actually when the gun will fire.
(But if the trigger is a match-grade SA, maybe with a setting lever,
and maybe a pull rated at under 10 ounces, the creep is very small,
since any slip at the sear means the gun will fire.)

There is a downside to trigger creep that is not well known.
When a sear starts to slip (creep), the slip is not normally reversible,
and the sear might be on the verge of release to detonation.
So if you relax your trigger finger after starting into the "creep", but
then decide to resume squeezing, the trigger pull WILL BE SMALLER,
and detonation will be early.
If I have started to squeeze, and I back off, then I might reset the
hammer by backing off on the slide or the hammer. For a striker gun,
I might back off the slide, then bump it closed to get a "fresh trigger".

There are variations on single/double action, and hammer/striker,
which can complicate explanations, but ultimately they operate on
similar principles. Since double-action-only triggers are so awkward,
some of the better guns use a "preset" feature that shortens trigger
travel and trigger pull, while keeping an added safety factor compared
to single action. (something like a half-cocked condition)
.

Penetration of Automobile Glass.

You might be faced with the need to fire through

car door glass at a perp tying to take over your car.

Car door glass is much different from windshield glass.
The door has a single pane tempered and designed to
break into small pieces on heavy impact.

But to penetrate the laminated polymer-reinforced
double-pane windshield, you need at least 230ft-lb with

hard-point ammo, and more energy with soft points.

This means a 9x19mm must have a copper jacket point

fired from a barrel at least 3.5" long, and nearly
perpendicular to the windshield.

FBI automatics are now 357sig or similar power to deal

with windshields and doors (the bullet is their business).

Concealed-carry ammo is not for windshields, unless you

are willing to pack a 357, 40, or similar.  But lighter ammo

can be effective through car DOOR glass, since that glass

is designed to break into small pieces when struck hard.

The first shot will at least break the glass, with the second

shot having full effect on the perp.

If you fire a pocket gun from inside toward the front, reach

around the windshield.  I won't mention teflon or steel, but

those are available somewhere.  I was surprised that the info I

found is that teflon might increase velocity, and help penetration
of glass and metal, but not into ballistic vest materials.

Crude ballistic testing is usually too crude.

For small handguns, I see tests into gelatin, wet newsprint,
and water jugs covered with denim.  {I have not seen much
on ballistic clay.}     But these tests only compare loads,
and are not realistic simulations for self defense.

I use poplar wood 2" cylinders as an easy compromise, but ideally,
there should be a layer of leather, followed by something like a human
rib/sternum, followed by gel.
A layer of auto door glass would be a good addition at times.

The leather is easy, and 1/4 inch plywood might do for the bone.
Gelatin is good for soft tissue, but to avoid the fuss, wet newsprint
might do, or even saturated basswood (which might be difficult).

This really matters for pocket guns, which are marginal weapons.
I won't routinely carry a loaded gun that weighs a full pound, or is
much larger than a KT p-3at/Ruger LCP/Taurus TCP.
And If a hollow/soft point breaks up in leather/bone, the perp effect is poor.

Gel and newsprint tests indicate expansion for 32acp and 380 soft/hollow points.
But I would only trust full copper or steel jackets, with rounded-point, in these loads,
since they are more likely to survive the trip to damage vulnerable soft tissues.

A broken rib or arm does not stop a perp.
A broken femur/tibia might knock them down.
But punctured bronchi, nerve tissues, or large blood vessels ruin their plans.

The same might go for 22mag, but that's a better penetrator whatever the bullet.
Unless you carry 9x19+p, 357, 40, 45, or similar-power loads, fmj is more reliable.

If a test result firing at 90 degrees is marginal, then a 45 degree test will fail.
.

Why I Carry a P-32; BUT IT'S A PAIN TO CORRECT.

I've made an intensive study of pocketguns, including building a
piping rig to safely and quietly test penetration into poplar cylinders.
Spending 1200 bucks was not a barrier in choosing a daily carry;
but effectiveness, reliability, size, and weight were.

I settled on a CORRECTED Kel-Tec p-32, using only Sellier
or Geco fmj hardpoint, without laser, light, or real sights.
(I have no financial interest in Kel Tec; I've even been
banned from KTOG and KTRange for being too critical.)

CAUTION:  I DO NOT RECOMMEND THE P-32 FOR SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE THE TIME, SKILL, OR MONEY TO MAKE EXTENSIVE CORRECTIONS.  THE GUN IS RIGHT FOR ME, BUT THEY HAVE TOO MANY PROBLEMS AS DELIVERED, AND I DON'T THINK I WOULD BUY A THIRD P-32. 
I ALSO WOULD NOT TRY THE P3AT FOR THE SAME REASONS AND FOR OTHER CONSIDERATIONS.
IF I HAD TO CHOOSE ANOTHER POCKET GUN, IT MIGHT BE THE TAURUS TCP 380.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
A 9mm or 38spl is in the console; for when I'm near the van.
One secret is: a 32acp fmj S&B from the 2.7 barrel penetrates
poplar the same as the 380 fmj AmEagle from a 2.7 barrel. (I never use HP or flat-nose)

Also, the extra round with locking slide is important sometimes.
I would not compromise in recommending a carry for my wife,
but she took my advice, and carries a corrected p-32.

I would pay for a better carry compromise, accounting for all
factors; but a small 380, .38, or 9mm is not worth the offsets
for personal daily carry. (I would not carry less than a 2.5" barrel.)

I have to spend 40 hours to correct a new p32, and that time is worth
600 bucks to me, so I'm actually paying 900.  When KT, Kahr, Sig,
or Rohr make a reliable 9mm with a 2.5+" barrel, 5.3"x.88"x3.8"
under a pound loaded, I'll buy.
(A 380 from a short barrel has stability issues, and it must hit point
first to get past a coat and a rib and several inches of soft tissue.)

If I have to use the p32, and it doesn't do the job, I will have brief
second thoughts, but then recalling the factors in the choice I made.
(Buying a used vehicle includes safety choices too.)
[March 3: A Kel-Tec rep at the Shot Show said he chooses the p32 over
the P3AT; for the slide lock, extra round, and nearly the same effect.

(BTW, Moro warriors of the Philippines were usually Muslim, carried
wooden shields, and were happy to die in jihad, since paradise awaited.
The .38special revolvers were too wimpy for them.
Not the usual perp on the streets of NY (unless on PCP).
.

Effective Shots From True Pocket Guns

[ revised on Mar 21 ]

Sometimes most shots in a sudden handgun fight are misses, or grazing hits.
Hits might first pass through a heavy coat, bone, or safety glass, sometimes
at shallow angles, before causing effective soft-tissue penetration, which is
more important than expansion, fragmentation, or yaw. [per FBI]
A second effective hit on a perp is often necessary; maybe within 2 seconds;
and likewise for any second perp.  Sometimes you might want to penetrate
laminated auto door glass.  (Windshield penetration is for cops while on duty.)

The drag coefficient of a stable bullet in air is an indicator of penetration potential
through solids.  A narrow stable full-jacket bullet has low drag in air, and is more
efficient in penetrating obstructions. They must then have remaining energy to
penetrate soft-tissue at least 5".

Expanding bullets limit soft tissue penetration, and can even prevent penetration.
Yaw (key-holing) reduces energy and penetration, and is no "advantage" unless
there are no obstructions and the target is close. (test those short-barrel guns)


Expanding or flat-nose bullets are not effective from short barrels ( < 2.5")
for 22lr, 32acp, 380acp, and other loads under 180 ftlb (from the actual barrel).

I would never use anything but FMJ in a low-energy pocket gun. (no flat nose)
A 9mm or 357 are different, but they tend to be too heavy and too large.
Maybe a 22wmr from a 4" barrel is good enough for flat/soft points.
(I will test in poplar cylinders someday, using 50gr subsonics if I can get them)

The 25acp should not be chosen for personal defense; it's just too weak through
leather and bone.  A 22lr-rn-hv can be effective if fired from a semi-auto barrel
that is least a 3" long, based on my tests on poplar wood.
           
             -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
In 380 bullets, the center of pressure during yaw (pressure from air, leather, bone)
is substantially closer to the center of gravity than for the 32acp.
For a given barrel length, the 380 is less stable through all media, and a
short barrel increases this relative instability.

I saw a thread about frequent keyholing from a popular "high-end" pocket gun.
Their product site does not even reveal the barrel length. (which is 2.1").
.

My Carry for Routine Days

Kel-Tec P-32 (G2)  modified for reliability and function, and using S&B fmj.

      Other mods are attached to  https://sites.google.com/site/concealedgun/

Would prefer KT PF-9 or Kahr PM-9, but those are a bit bulky, and 9 is too much for wife.

(Will consider Taurus PT-738, .380 fmj, if it proves reliable in reports, but for me the 380
 pocket guns don't really beat a P-32 when balancing several factors, including noise.)

(I think a 22mag needs a 4" barrel to penetrate coat, bone, and 6" of soft tissue from 10 feet.)

.

Don't Try to Fix SW380 or SW9

(Updated April 2011)
Regarding the ill-fated Sigma compacts with the pinch-release mags . . .
There are other lines of various SW "Sigma" designs still produced;
I don't know about them, just the two models discontinued in 2001.

Around 1995, Smith introduced Sigma Compacts sw380/sw9m, mainly as backup
guns for law enforcement. .I hope LEO is rid of them by now, but they show
up in at least one list of approved backup/off-duty guns.
I hope there was no death or serious wound resulting from failures to fire.

They were cheap, small, and light (14oz empty), with no protruding features,
except the prominent front corners. They were striker guns, like Glock, and
the operation was too similar; they lost a patent suit by Glock.

I bought a used SW380 at a gun show, knowing little except that it was small,
light, easy to rack for my wife, and a name brand. .It has been a major waste
of time to try to make it work, and it's another serious blot on any reputation
Smith still has. [see "The Dark Side of Smith & Wesson" by Chuck Hawks,
Dec 2008. www.chuckhawks.com/smith-wesson_dark.htm]

When I installed a "lighter" Wolf target spring, it was much longer than
the spring that was in my used sw380. This is part of the light-strike problem.
But even with the Wolf spring, and extensive careful work, it will not fire
more than three in six rounds, even after shaving firing pin surfaces that
might drag on the interlock spool, and even after testing without the spool.

I dealt with every conceivable factor in battery, mechanisms, slam-fire block,
and alignments; and I took material off a dozen surfaces, even the impact nose.
I even used a punch to deform a cartridge centering wall to better align primers
with the firing pin.

Smith now has the 380 manual on their website, but they still want you to send
the gun in for striker part replacement. The striker is very light, so if the
assembly is not right, the impact is light. I think the problem is that the
striker, which combines a hammer and firing pin function, is too light, even
without and dirt, grease, or excess drag.

The slide is cast or MIM soft alloy, with a steel breach face cast or pressed
into the soft slide. What I read is that some have been good guns, and others
junk, like mine.
I would not pay ten cents for another one, since it might not fire when needed.
And I am very reluctant to buy another used gun at a gun show, or any Smith.
.